I have found the responses to my initial post (I think Parkwood referred to it as OP) very interesting and I comment further in this post. For clarity, my car is an EQA250 (FWD), which was built in May 2021 and spent the first 3,000 km (i.e. before I bought it) as a dealer demonstration vehicle. Why did I buy a 'demonstrator' rather than a new vehicle? At the time of purchase, various EQA250 features - which I considered essential - weren't available on then-current orders and I was able to secure the vehicle immediately rather than wait a year or more for delivery. About the only thing I don't especially like is the colour (Denim). If I were to choose a colour I would probably default to white, for practical reasons, and at the time I didn't find any other colour in the range particularly attractive. Lots of greys!
I am also interested. My information is that D+ is best for economy and reliability however it would be impractical to sail to a stop at junctions each time due to the length of time spent under the speed limit which is why D Auto mode switches to regen at junctions. Regarding reliability my information is that city miles affect a car more than motorways from stress on car such as from starting/stopping therefore more sailing to a stop is less stress on car. The extra economy would also create less lithium battery cycles which helps too. However again this could be impractical/illegal due to time spent not making progress while coming to a stop and gradually accelerating.
Ever wondered which is better for your car, motorway driving or city driving? When you come to buy a used car it’s an important question to ask. Why? Well, one type is easier on a vehicle than the other, which can actually wear the car down more. You might be surprised to find out the answer...
news.motors.co.uk
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I think you can see what the car is doing in one of the consumption menus (you can in EQC anyway). The graphic displays where power is being transferred.
In the city, I find D+ a bit unnerving, as the car does just "sail on" unimpeded by any sort of resistance - other than the friction brakes. It's a bit like selecting neutral in a manual transmission ICE vehicle as you approach a stopping point: no engine braking when you take your foot off the accelerator. I have a similar feeling with D Auto in the city; however, I should perhaps try it more often - especially in the country.
Regarding country v city motoring, I agree, it's generally accepted that open country running is easier on a car than stop-start city motoring. Perhaps less so for an EV? I'm not sure.
IMHO. It is best to use D Auto all the time. It is far easier on the mind......less thinking about things and a more relaxed journey.
As I commented above, I haven't found D Auto to my liking, but I'm prepared to keep trying it in various circumstances.
I can't say I've ever noticed that in the EQC, and I do exactly that every time I start a journey (because I mostly drive in D-- but the car defaults to D). In my experience, whenever the Power meter is in the +ve side, i.e. the motor is propelling the car forward and consuming energy, the paddle settings are irrelevant. They only come into play when the Power meter has swung -ve, i.e. the motor is actively slowing the car and generating energy. So as I start up and drive off down the road, I give two flicks on the left paddle and notice no change to anything - until I next lift my foot off.
In my EQA250, when I drive along a flat section of road (at urban speeds) in say D and I select D- I need to press slightly harder on the accelerator to maintain speed and press even harder if I select D- -. I understand that if you select D- or D- - immediately you take off, you would be unaware of the effect I refer to. My car also defaults to D.
Occasionally, I use my Individual setting (suspension on Sport, everything else, Comfort); I think MB could improve their EVs by allowing drive mode to be configured as part of the Individual setting, because in most cases, with consecutive starts employing the Individual setting, you can select Individual via a brief prompt on MBUX . Having said that, pulling the paddles isn't too difficult!
Yes, route-based speed adaptation was the first thing I disabled.
Subsequent to the long trip I referred to - and speaking to my dealer - I also disabled route-based speed adaptation. I haven't tried it since.
I think the paddles are completely ignored once the cruise control is engaged. The cruise control tell the drivetrain "I want to go descend this hill at 50 km/hr (say)" and it then applies just the right amount of regen to achieve that.. regardless of how the paddles are set. The paddles are all about what happens when you lift your right foot off, but when the cruise control is engaged your right foot is resting on the carpet, so the paddle settings don't matter.
Agreed, re cruise control and paddles / (D setting): cruise control is just that: in control, while set.
As far as coasting goes, what coasting actually means is that the Power meter is at 0. The motors are neither propelling the car, not slowing it. Electrical energy is being neither consumed nor generated. The speed of the car is then just down to gravity, gradient, rolling resistance etc.
I beg to disagree, dBC. As I commented earlier, in my EQA250, selecting D+ removes any decelerative effect, whereas in D I experience a mild decelerative effect when I remove my foot from the accelerator. I like that; it's very similar to most ICE vehicles. I agree, the Power meter shows 0 when you do so.
You can actually coast in any D setting... even D--, it just take a lot more driver effort to achieve in D--. You need to monitor the Power meter, and carefully modulate your right foot to keep the Power meter at 0. Not enough right foot and the Power meter will swing -ve, too much and it will swing +ve. That's a lot of hard word and I'm not suggesting it as a viable driving technique - far easier to just select D+ and rest your right foot on the carpet. But it demonstrates there's nothing particularly complex going on with the paddles.. they just control what happens when you lift your right foot.
I can't 'coast' in my car when drive is set to D, D-, or D- -, but I can achieve a Power meter reading of 0 by adjusting my foot pressure on the accelerator.
I think we're in agreement as far as the effect of the paddles is concerned. D+ provides no regenerative braking when you lift off and the settings D through to D- - provide progressively more regenerative effect as you move through that sequence, but the regenerative effect can be nullified by applying pressure to the accelerator - to the point of creating an accelerative effect, dependant on the pressure on the accelerator. D Auto does all of the above via the vehicle's sensors and 'brain'. Some people like D Auto, others are wary of it, or dislike it.
The questions raised by the OP are exactly the sort of things I have wondered about. After the first month though I came to the conclusion Dauto gave the best efficiency primarily due to the coasting which it does a lot. At first I was concerned about the use of the friction brakes given the cars weight but with Dauto the car slows itself on approach to a junction with regen and then the last bit is friction or at least I think it is. one of my questions is whether the car chooses regen only or regen and friction when the brake pedal is pressed🤷♀️
I'm encouraged by your positive comments about D Auto. If I remember correctly, your EV is an EQC. Perhaps there's some difference in the calibration of D Auto as between the EQC and the EQA250.
Two interesting questions: whether the car uses regen alone to decelerate, or regen plus friction brakes. Perhaps it depends on the circumstances; however, when I've contemplated this I've also considered the amount of retardation taking place and in most cases I feel it's within the capability of the regeneration system (alone); i.e. similar to D-, or in some cases, D- - (e.g. when descending a steep hill (in D+), with the Speed Limiter set).
Secondly, does your EQC come to a complete halt with D Auto selected? As I've said, my experience with D Auto is minimal, but with say D- - selected, the car slows appreciably as it approaches another vehicle at say a set of traffic lights, but I always need to apply the friction brakes for the final bit of retardation.
Regen can never put back all the energy as there are losses which is why mercedes recommend Dauto with its coasting element. I can make one of my regular short journeys using virtually no power as once the car hits the top of the hill it just coasts home! I find the D-- odd as you seem to have to be pushing the car through resistance and it just feels you are expending more energy🤷♀️
Agreed, in all respects, noting MB's 'recommendation' re D Auto.
I use the limiter all the time and with Dauto the car is very smooth though I notice it does take the edge off the acceleration as of course it knows you will not be passing the limit set.
My beef is that you cannot preset your preferred method and have to reset Dauto or alternatives every time. Though I can feel from the driving characteristic even as a passenger if Dauto has not been engaged it just seems to make the car more fluid.
It will be interesting to see how the friction brake pads are faring at the next service but there is dust on the wheels so they do get used……
I use the Speed Limiter almost all the time and I think it also 'takes the edge off acceleration' in the other drive modes (at least D to D- -, which I use); I guess it's a somewhat pre-emptive action.
My beef is that you cannot preset your preferred method and have to reset Dauto or alternatives every time. Though I can feel from the driving characteristic even as a passenger if Dauto has not been engaged it just seems to make the car more fluid.
It will be interesting to see how the friction brake pads are faring at the next service but there is dust on the wheels so they do get used……
As I commented above, I think MB should consider making the drive mode part of the Individual configuration - even if your Individual setting was Comfort for everything, but say D Auto for drive mode (assuming D is the default). I don't think it would compromise safety, as the driver would have to consciously select Individual.
Yes, brake pad (and disc) wear: I try to minimise it.
Which vehicle are you quoting? The original poster is asking about the EQA from Australia. You are driving an EQC from France and this does have different software with different electric hardware configurations, so what applies to your car (EQC) does not apply to him in his EQA. He has not quoted 4MATIC but does quote an electric motor in his post. This would point to a single axel.
My apologies for not clarifying my car's spec: now addressed (above).
No doubt the "hardware" configuration does affect software configuration. It would be interesting to know to what extent and also whether MB tweaks the configuration according to the country (or broad region) of sale. I suspect not; it would add enormous complexity to an already complex system and portfolio of vehicles.
The closest vehicle in terms of configuration and software to the EQA is the EQB. Even then there is a difference. I did test the UK specification EQA (single motor) and the EQB 300 (4MATIC) before purchasing. They are different animals and drive quite differently.
So to carry this forward (I did reply in the simplest terms in my previous post), I can only reply with the UK version in mind.
My car always defaults to D auto no matter what I leave it in at the end of a trip. Also, it only has 4 settings (D, D+, D-, and Dauto). Others talk about D- -, but the EQB does not have this in the UK. Not in my software configuration anyway.
As to which setting is the smoothest is very subjective and has much to do with what mode the car is in be it Sport, Comfort, or Eco. In Dauto the car is watching the traffic ahead (uses the inbuilt radar and camera) and the speed limit also the road conditions displayed on the map have an effect. So in some instances, it can slow one down quite markedly and in others not, even on the same piece of road. It can vary from one day to the next depending on traffic.
Interesting that your EQB defaults to D Auto. I wonder whether MB has changed the default drive setting across the range?
I think I've read elsewhere that MB discontinued D- - in later EQA builds than mine. I must say that I like D- - as it definitely provides more retardation than D-. Perhaps they've reconfigured D- so that it's now slightly more aggressive?
Interesting comments on the behaviour of D Auto. Is it very clever or too clever?!
The basic question raised of what is the car doing, how is it thinking about it and what actions it takes is the same whatever the drive surely?
With mine I can see when the car is just fwd, 4wd, or rwd and it switches between the options really quickly but what prompts those changes ok in the case of 4matic I have some idea but with something like the regen and dauto it is all far less clear as to which may be best for efficiency and or friction brake wear.
Interesting they seem to have made dauto the default now, the same conversation has been had for years about sport comfort individual settings in ICE mercedes.
It would be interesting to have some insight to MB's R&D testing, as one assumes they did a lot of work before adopting specific configurations for their wide range of vehicles. And, no doubt, changes continue to be made on the basis of owners' experiences in various circumstances and regions globally.
I think locale plays a bit part in the answer too. All that D-Auto and route based speed adaptation relies on quality mapping data, and in Australia the mapping data sucks.
@EQA-S.oz you might want to consider disabling route based speed adaptation, it can be quite dangerous. There's a spot on the A1 somewhere south of Coffs where it will do an un-commanded harsh deceleration in otherwise clear air motorway driving - it's as if someone left a roundabout on the motorway (at least in the mapping data). MB took all of about a msec to respond with "oh yeh, you should disable route based speed adaptation", so I'm pretty sure they're aware the local mapping data isn't up to the task.
Yes, my EQA250 does have mapping with quite a bit of information, but Australia is a big, largely uninhabited country and to map every metre of every road would be nigh on impossible. I certainly found with cruise control and route-based speed adaptation enabled, the car negotiated some corners with an element of exuberance, whilst the 'nannys' were very much in evidence in other places. Not ideal.
So in some instances, it can slow one down quite markedly and in others not, even on the same piece of road. +1
Mmmm!
